* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Determinism Necessarily Follows From Basic Premise (Assumption) Of Objectivity
(Apollonian, 5 Feb 14)
Magus: I submit u're mis-understanding the basic problem/issue. (a) The basic choice among assumptions is objectivity (Aristotle) or subjectivism (Plato, Kant, Descartes, et al.).
Note this basic choice is assumption, necessarily, it being a first premise (metaphysics), so u CANNOT have "evidence" for it--which would indicate a prior criterion or premise. Objectivity (or not) is the first premise (metaphysics), necessarily. Objectivity (beginning assumption) then provides for all/any "evidence," evidence being something that follows and cannot precede that first, basic assumption.
(b) Objectivity then leads necessarily to determinism, absolute cause-effect; there couldn't be a perfectly "free" God-like human will. This fallacious perfect "freedom" of will is literally HUBRIS (madness) and subjectivism, foundation of "good-evil" "noble-lie" of Leo Strauss, for example, the way one intimidates and beguiles the over-populated weaklings among humanity, always and so typically taught to, and assumed by, poor, ignorant children who struggle to learn and to know.
Thus u see, there is no "evidence" (or not) for a perfectly "free" will--it merely follows in logic fm the preceding assumption of objectivity or not. Determinism is implicit in objectivity--like God the Father and God the Son, simply diff. aspects for same basic thing.
----------------above by ap in response to below----------------------------
magus71 said, on February 5, 2014 at
10:10 am
i
Rate This
I say we are free. But I cannot prove that all people’s perceive pain the same.
My evidence is my experience as an NCO, conducting daily physical training with the troops. Since we are support, not line infantry, toughness is not emphasized.
I regard the cowardice as the defining disorder of our age, both the cause and effect of our decline. This manifests itself with an utter lack of motivation for anything that can cause momentary discomfort in our young men. Few feel exhilaration from the statement: vedi, vichi. veni.
There are the weak in my platoon, whom, if allowed to train themselves, will never push themselves to improve their fitness. Without someone else pushing them, they consistently slouch back to fatness and slowness. That’s where I have to step in. I explained to them this morning that I was getting a bit tired of seeing the pouting and lack of motivation. These are un-soldierly attributes. And those attitudes bring me down, too. So I use the carrot or the stick. Today was the stick.
Back to free will. Some in my platoon will not push themselves when they are alone, but when I conduct training and push them, using all the age-old techniques employed by NCOs since the Roman Empire and all the way to Sgt Zim in Starship Troopers(primarily, scorn) suddenly, they’re sweating it out until the end, going further than they would have otherwise.
Of course, those with free but weak wills will begin to complain and grab body parts, trying to get the response their moms gave them: Sympathy. Again, a symptom of cowardice, because there is no real injury. One of the Lieutenants asked me how I knew it was not a real injury. I quoted the NCO Creed: “I know my Soldiers”. This NCO does this every time we do moderately difficult PT. I think next session I’ll tell them that every time I hear a grumble or someone grabs a body part hoping to get extra rest, we’ll do another circuit.
Suddenly their free will will become even more apparent, I’m sure.
What is interesting, is that the harder I push them, and the more scorn I heap on them for not keeping up, the more thanks I get after the training. I’m not joking. Few things are more transformation than achievement.
