Dialectic with "Judeo-Christian" (though he denies it) upon what exactly IS Christianity

Here's another great dialectic found at http://www.thebeerbarrel.net/showthread.php?8911-What-IS-Christianity-a-dialectic-btwn-mighty-apster-and-presumptuous-MAT/page3; it has to do w. meaning of Christianity.

And sorry for the large spaces in btwn these paragraphs--I tried and tried to take them out by "editing" but it just doesn't want to work. I leave a single space, but when I hit "publish" I find the son-of-a-bitch puts double the spaces. I give up.

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Fool Mis-Represents What He Then Condemns
(Apollonian, 14 Jul 11)

MAT: Poor fool, readers will observe u've totally mis-represented Christ's statement (see below-copied by MAT) about "judging." If u lie about one quote, u may have lied about the others too--certainly mis-understood them, regardless. One MUST judge--there's simply no way around it--it's just one must be careful to note criterion by which one judges as it will be applied to oneself in due time. Christ did NOT NOT NOT tell people to not judge (as u allege)--this would be stupid--which is how u understand Christianity which u then condemn.

Problem is u understand "intelligent" (like a Jew) to meaning biased like urself. And indeed, I oppose ur demented and biased understanding which is NOT NOT NOT "intelligent" in proper sense of the word.

Christ un-questionably emphasized idea that truth is pre-eminent value, HONESTY then the pre-eminent ethical virtue--AGAINST the Pharisees (and others, but Pharisees were worst of the bunch) who, in their hubris, always twisted things and lied to suit their interests ("what's 'good' for Jews"). Thus Christ upheld the Aristotelian reality (or "God-created" according to Christians) against Pharisaic/Talmudic subjectivism (as of urs, I'd note).

As Christ is anti-Talmudic (anti-lies and anti-subjective), he is necessarily anti-semitic, ipso facto--I doubt anyone would disagree. Truth then is absolutely thematic for Christian aesthetic/philosophy defining absolutely EVERYTHING else, necessarily.

I don't at all "attack" Christ's teachings--I attack ur miserable "interpretations," that's all. I only say Christ didn't and couldn't have meant what u idiotically say he meant.

And the "cognitive dissonance" is entirely on ur part; u're actually preaching "Judeo-Christianity" (JC) but don't have the wit to understand the stupidity u speak/write. U're such a smug, brainless fool with ur slip-shod, totally conventional "interpretations" which I've shown are so prejudiced if not entirely false--as about ur assertion on "judging." It doesn't occur to a moron like u Jews have sedulously subsidized a Jew-oriented, Jew-serving understanding/"interpretation of Christianity, it's worst enemy, for nearly two hundred yrs now, which is proven in the infamous Scofield Bible, for example--see Whtt.org for expo/ref.

CONCLUSION: MAT: my writings go back ten yrs now which anyone can research at NewNation.org, under "commentary." I'm quite confident for my expo/research; u're the one half-assed and flippant for ur Jew-serving "understanding." Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian


-------------------above by Ap in response to below-copied by MAT--------------------

Yes, that is the full quote--wherein Jesus advises his followers not to judge others. You have not refuted a damn thing.

I do not expect you to utter anything remotely intelligent. The entire basis for your interpretation of Christianity is merely one N.T. verse, which you manhandle to boot. You also believe that Jesus was not Jewish--when he, and all of his apostles and early followers, were Jewish. The earliest Christians just considered themselves another Jewish sect; in fact, the decision to convert Gentiles and not force them to comply with Jewish ceremonial 'laws' was not one that came naturally or easily.

It is also funny that you attack many of Jesus' teachings, suggesting that he could not have meant what he taught because such is illogical, e.g., "loving one's enemies." I find this amusing because many folks who are opposed to Christianity expressly have a problem with these teachings, suggesting that they are unrealistic or simply inapplicable in real life. Such individuals may be right, but at least they have the balls to state they are not Christians because they disagree with some of Christ's teachings, as opposed to claiming to be Christian while similarly disagreeing with such teachings.

You would live with far less cognitive dissonance if you just accept the fact that you are not a Christian. If you are actually a white man, I suggest Asatru. No need to hate Jews and worship them at the same time, or to mangle their teachings to create a pseudo-theological mess.


---------------------------below-copied by MAT in response to above (top) by Ap---------------

We can agree that Jesus was anti-Talmudic, and obviously opposed the Pharisees and Sadducees.

However, Jesus was a Jew, who preached to other Jews, who was followed around by a bunch of other Jews, and so forth. He was clearly not an anti-Semite, at least not in the sense that the term has been understood since the Jews started to cry about their poisecution.

Jesus was only "anti-Semitic" in the sense that he tried to teach the conservative Jews of his day to reform themselves, to be less tribalistic and less hateful. But he was no Aryan warlord or Greek student of Aristotle -- he was a Jew.

Also, I am no "Judeo-Christian."

"As Christ is anti-Talmudic (anti-lies and anti-subjective), he is necessarily anti-semitic, ipso facto--I doubt anyone would disagree." -Apollonian fm above, 14 Jul 11

Au contraire, there is not anyone who would agree. This is another massive oversimplification heaped upon another oversimplification with a conclusion that would literally astound any rational person.

1) Opposing Talmudic teachings, as even some Jews do, does not ipso facto make one "anti-Semitic."
2) The Talmud is not simply about "lies" and "subjectivity" -- nor is Christianity simply about "TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH" and "objectivity."

----------------------below-copied by Ap in response to above by MAT-----------------

Apsterian Expo Mightily Crushes Home, Steadily, Surely, Triumphantly
(Apollonian, 15 Jul 11)

Slowly but steadily MAT finds he must admit to and adopt the definitions, exposition, and meanings mighty Apster has so consistently held.

Observe MAT admits Christ was anti-Talmudic (thus admitting the premise), but now wants to quibble and continue to insist Christ was Jew, MAT insisting Jew is more/other than Pharisaic/Talmudist and those racially related which assertion then consists simply of the fallacy of EQUIVOCATION--conflating two (or more) different things into one and the same. But I maintain the verifiable truth that Jew, strictly speaking, IS NOT same as "Judean," but rather, as I noted w. ref.s, Jew being follower of Pharisees, etc., and those racially related.

MAT then begs the question regarding, "...in the sense that the term has been understood," that term being "anti-semitic," which is anti-Jew (not Judean), or anti-Talmudist. In fact, one can confidently say anti-semitic means anti-Talmudist, practically perfectly parallel terms, and so it has always been held by the Jews themselves. Anti-Talmud is anti-semitic ipso facto.

Thus MAT grudgingly admits and agrees w. my necessary conclusion (Christ was absolutely anti-semitic), though he petulantly wants to stipulate conditions which I never put--I never said Christ was "Aryan warlord." For Christ was Gallilean of Judean descent (not Jew--not Pharisaic) who preached the real Mosaic law--against the Pharisaics, the Pharisaics conspiring thus to have Christ murdered.

And now here we begin to get to the real nitty-gritty about the real, essential Christianity and what it REALLY means first and most (yes, it does feature TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH as foremost principle, as I noted). And observe I didn't say Christ was "Greek" student of Aristotle, but he was Aristotelian without doubt for the primary immanence of Aristotle--OBJECTIVITY. Reality exists in its own right ("God-created" according to the Christians) regardless of our own consciousnesses, thus premise for TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH--an extremely anti-semitic (anti-Talmudic) principle.

For what is the Talmud?--even as MAT himself has already essentially admitted, teaching hate and warfare for the sake of war. Thus the Talmud teaches reality is ONLY what the rabbis say it is (subjectivism, ipso facto), this always serving the "good" of the Jews--but always then, of course, for the special "good" of the leaders of the Jews, the heck w. lower-level kikes whom the top Jews merely use as means to their ends.

Thus Christian TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH vs. Jew lies is very much and precisely the SAME as Aristotelian OBJECTIVITY vs. Jew/Talmudic subjectivity. Q.E.D. And it's impossible and absurd for any "Jew" to oppose the Talmud, for he wouldn't be a Jew (by definition) any longer--it's inconceivable. And in fact, Jews would see to it the apostate Jew would be dead, dead, dead--as they've so well demonstrated throughout hist., Talmud being essentially just a hand-book for CRIMINALS, pure and simple. And Christ cursed the Pharisees (see 23rd chapt. Gosp. MATT) for making the law of Moses into such a criminal enterprise, beginning w. making the law of men to being law of God (Gosp. MARK 7:1-13 and MATT 15:3-9).

Hence Christianity, the philosphy thereto and therein, is NECESSARILY founded upon the idea of truth (as in Gosp. JOHN), hence objectivity, without such objectivity there could be no truth--this, opposed to Jew lies and Talmudism which is meant to serve the "good" of the Jews (actually, their leaders), as defined by the kikes.

MAT is indubitably and without question one who spouts the same "Judeo-Christian" hereticalist lies to effect Christianity and Judaism (Talmudism) are mere variants of same thing; they're NOT NOT NOT--they are HEGELIAN OPPOSITES and anti-theses necessarily and without question. Thus Christianity is so eminently rational and reasonable whereas Judaism/Talmudism is irrationalist and mystic featuring the false "faith" of believing absurd things, this "believing" then creating a false reality within the subject. Proper Christianity only holds "faith" as LOYALTY, like the faithful husband to wife. MAT is half-baked and slip-shod for his understanding and distinctions as I've noted over and over.

CONCLUSION: Hence it is mighty apster has demonstrated his case so conclusively; MAT must lie grossly and grievously to maintain Christ was Jew, a most disgusting and putrid falsehood, and note how he does it, (a) ignoring the ref.s and expo given by apster, (b) continuing then mindlessly and stupidly to repeating the same balderdash as he does. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

Here's a neat dialectic we had, starting a few days ago. Dialectic basically starts here http://www.thebeerbarrel.net/showthread.php?7822-Hi-everybody!/page18, item 177, and then continues at another couple of threads, http://www.thebeerbarrel.net/showthread.php?9040-Is-the-Bible-God, and http://www.thebeerbarrel.net/poll.php?pollid=116&do=showresults.

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Christianity Is Simply Reason Against Mysticism, Irrationalism Harnessed By Jews

(Apollonian, 18 Jul 11)

"Iosiah": I'm not an obedient dog-like animal like u, who "obeys." Rather, I'm honest sinner who essentially does what I pls, pursuing my happiness, in accord w. what I think is real, true, reasonable, and proper. The rule is REASON, period, and Christ is great because that's how he understands ethics, as he says and demonstrates.

Thus the appropriate "commandments" are, as I noted, (1) understanding reality, hence God, and appreciating things ("love God")--(2) and then act accordingly by justice, which second part merely follows logically fm the first. Thus God's (Christ's) advice is to think and be rational, reducing things most simply. Thus Christ re-stated the Old Test., and New Test. reason/rationality is all we need, as I've extensively exposited this thread.

Christ is the God of reason and specifically TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH (Gosp. JOHN 14:6) against Jew lies (JOHN 8:44). Thus Christianity upholds the Aristotelian OBJECTIVE reality against Jew subjectivism, for basic philosophy, as only objectivity provides criterion for TRUTH. Christianity is not about bean-counting and "obeying" like a dog--as u seem to think--u're just a child; u should grow-up.

Regarding "morality": remember ethics is mere logic btwn ends and means, that's all. Means must properly serve ends.

So u see "Iosiah," u need to grow-up and become a thinking adult: given the OBJECTIVE reality, things are DETERMINED in accord w. absolute cause-effect--there's NO perfectly "free" human will, and thus there's no "good-evil." Everyone does best they can. Jews and queers are irrational and insane, that's all--they're DISEASES-of-opportunity afflicting "Decline of the West," by Oswald Spengler whence over-populated people suffer hubris, pretending to fallacious, delusional, hereticalist "good-evil," imagining it's good to "tolerate" these monstrous scum and psychopaths, Jews and queers.

Remember, pretending to being "good," as u seem to do, is classic Pharisaism, by definition; u're just a sinner like anyone else. queers (and Jews) are scum as they destroy rational society like the irrationalist diseases they are, and we Christians are soldiers of God and rationality above all.

CONCLUSION: But only 5%, or even less, entirely grasp and can really handle purest REASON, u understand--which then is why we have the advice and "commandments" of Christ to guide us by way of supplement to reason. I hope I've made things simpler for u to understand--we're NOT Pharisees--we don't need "commandments," except as advisory guidance for the weak-minded. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian


-----------------above by Ap in response to below by "Iosiah"-----------------------

Originally Posted by Iosiah

I don't suppose you're referring to these Mark and Matthew verses? Jesus speaking:

Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do nor bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor they father and mother.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

How do you have any moral high ground over a fag when you only obey two commandments yourself?

-----------------------"Iosiah" further responded, below-copied----------------


Originally Posted by Iosiah

No, you are quite dog-like. You're just a rebel who hates God. John 14:16 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

You think you can lean on your own righteousness and then say that Jesus approves. That is absurd. It's not about what you think is "real, true, reasonable, and proper." As a man, you're too dumb to define those things. There is nothing about "reason" or "ethics" in the scriptures.

Loving God is keeping the commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

What's with this "TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH" silliness? Christianity, from Genesis to Revelation is absolutely about obedience to God. To say anything else is a lie.

No duh, tard. It's called "predestination." Free willers are heretics. Like you.

Then shut up about the Bible because you have no Biblical basis to speak against Jews and fags with the heresies you've constructed. You're operating purely out of your own righteousness. If your problem with these people is their irrationality, why would you try to bring Christianity into it?


------------------Ap next responded, below-copied---------------------

Christian Aesthetic Is Triumphant Unifier Against Lies, Jews, Et Al.

(Apollonian, 18 Jul 11)

"Iosiah": u're one of those poor creatures who tries to being a good little boy for God understood as parent, u pretending to being "obedient"--which is just as well as u have no brains, obviously--or very little.

Christ affirms TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH (Gosp. JOHN 14:6) which immediately and necessarily implies the OBJECTIVE (Aristotelian) reality. And God gives us our REASON by which to think, act, and operate. Bible is mere ancillary supplement written by men which u forget too easily as u're just not very smart--it's weaklings like u that most NEED the Bible and its advice as u can't figure things out on ur own.

CONCLUSION: Why dear "Christianity"?--it's universal aestheticalist unifier against lies and those most satanic henchmen, the Jews and their accomplices like the "Judeo-Christian" (JC--see Whtt.org and TruthTellers.org for expo/ref.) hereticalists who rule presently. Christ affirms the objective reality, criterion for TRUTH, TRUTH, TRUTH (without objective reality, there'd be no "truth," u see). Thus objectivity is basis for all human reason, logic, and science, ethics, etc. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

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-----------There were further dialectical exchanges which one can see at above-noted URLs------------

[It's been almost three weeks without a new posting here, but I've been busy at a discussion site, TheBeerBarrel.net--which is like a large blog, u know. And I was able to get in several good DIALECTICS which is the great feature of blogs and blogging, multiplied at discussion sites (see link, just below). Immediately below is an instance of a dialectic I had w. a faggot/gay/homosexual who was typically making excuses for his faggotry, claiming he WAS NOT trying to push an agenda. We had several exchanges, but below is when I thought I quite effectively rebutted him at one posting. See http://www.thebeerbarrel.net/showthread.php?7822-Hi-everybody!/page13. I answer in the numbered paragraphs corresponding to his statements, numbering to which I super-added.]

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Mighty Apster Refutes The Queer's Lies, Propaganda

(Apollonian, 17 Jul 11)

Hey thanks much, Friedrich, for ur snappy and spirited response--it gives me something to work w. by way of "reasoning" w. u, eh? But again and before anything else, note queers are simply ADDICTS and psychotically obsessed w. sense gratification. Ur entire response is nothing but excuses and cheap rationalizations which have been hrd before and will NOT NOT NOT ultimately be tolerated.

1. U didn't come here to "push gay agenda"?--U'RE A LIAR, pure and simple. Proof is ur typical, stupid excuses and rationalizations, again--this is "pushing agenda," by definition.

2. A queer is an addict--u're not ONLY "attracted"--u actively seek out sense gratification w. others of same sex; ultimately u queer scum all end up as crass alcoholics, and u always get around to attempting to seducing younger, more vulnerable victims--u're predators, without any doubt.

3. Well, being queer would be useless and meaningless if it didn't end up w. the thematic sense gratfication, hence "act," u scum sooo desperately crave, eh? Being queer is now part of a mentality and culture and is "political" of necessity.

4. Sure, disease and psychosis are parts of nature too and will always be there, but they don't usually prevail in human society except when that society suffers "Decline of the West," by Oswald Spengler.

5. As every act is necessarily consequence of human will, expression/assertion of "sexuality" is responsibility w. legal consequences--same as TREASON and any other crime--ur sort of putrid corruption has simply been tolerated far too much, and must now be dealt with more actively/drastically, in un-compromising manner--it WILL NOT be tolerated--and u're going to understand this one way or another, comrade.

6. U're just a liar, and what u "believe" is most often just a lie u tell urself to justify ur perversion and socio-pathology, scum.

7. Right, queer scum: and we've hrd that before fm queers like urself too, haven't we? Actually, EVERYONE is "latent" queer, eh?--some are simply more rational and more successful in guiding and restraining themselves. But ur stupid excuses will NOT NOT NOT ultimately be tolerated, as I've warned u.

8. Encouraging queers is KNOWN strategy of Jews and cultural subversives like communists--who are always guided by Jews--ALWAYS.

9. Queers are ALWAYS basically adjuncts to (a) irrationalists and (b) subjectivists, these led by professional subverters of society, thus Jews--these are simply known, verified facts of history. U've already made known ur sympathy to kikes. So queers are simply the lower-level cadre of a core-group, led by Jews, the purpose being the intimidation/terrorization and regimentation of society in general. As for most issues, MOST people are "un-decided" in the middle btwn extremely small minorities at the polar ends, sociologically/politically. Queers are known, confirmed advocates of the "New World Order" (NWO) which features "freedom" for queers. Death to queers.

10. "Sexual rev." and "teen pregnancy" are mere symptoms of same problem, queers being just another of general societal break-down, scum--they're all related, part and parcel.

11. "White man's expense" is promoted by Jews, hence queers, Jews' little helpers/accomplices--another well-known fact, scummy lying queer.

12. "Gay people" are psychotic, obsessive enemies of society and its youth; they are criminals and traitors waging war upon that society, exterminating such queer enemies is NOT "murder"--it's rather self-defense.

13. Eradicating queers along w. Jews and other diseases may or may not "increase numbers"--what's important is defending the volk, insuring the security of a just and healthy society.

14. "Young gay people" must simply change their corrupt and perverted habits, and as they are rational and realize such filthy habits won't be tolerated, the smart ones will surely repent their filthy sins and reform their habits in healthier way. What, pray tell, is "pseudo-religious"?--I'm being perfectly frank in PUREST, honest, logical reason. Ur corruption/perversion WILL NOT be tolerated. U will get a clue--or, u will be dead, dead, dead, scum. I think this attitude of mine is both (a) honest, and (b) most rational indeed; if it isn't u need to say why/how. U might call it "tough love"--I call it HONESTY in matter-of-fact way. Regardless, u WILL get a "clue"--OR ELSE.

15. U're just an ignorant liar, as usual w. u scummy, stupid queers. Queers are psychotically obsessed TRAITORS who collude w. worst enemies of mankind, Jews--sure, that may be a "talent" to perverted scum like u queers. But I was hist. major in grad-school, and I assure u ur'e brainless ignorant moron when it comes to Renaissance which was essentially the SECULARIZATION of what previously was oriented to the after-life, the integration of the world of sense-perception w. the abstract by means of reason--NOT NOT NOT queer perversion which is built upon trendy, faddish, "fashionable" ignorance and half-assed "new-age"-style mysticism and mumbo-jumbo psycho-babble.

16. Yes, privacy is a right in reason and rational society, but on the contrary, u queers want to make it public, pushing ur perversion in people's faces, forcing the children to be propagandized at the schools, insisting queers should be hired by private companies and not "discriminated" against, u scummy, corrupt queer liar.

17. No, we Christian soldiers are going to take-back our Western society, and we're going to EXTERMINATE w. "extreme prejudice" u filthy, corrupt, perverted friends and sympathizers of Jews. U've now been totally refuted, once again, and I repeat: u're lucky I'm being most reasonable w. u now, scum. U queers are NOT NOT NOT going to be tolerated. Get a clue to save ur scummy life, puke. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian


----------------above by Ap in response to below-copied by "Friedrich"--------------

[1] I didn't come here to push a queer agenda, but since you seem obsessed with it...
[2] Being gay means you are attracted to the same sex.
[3] It is not a sex act or political act in itself.
[4] It occurs in nature, across cultures, and will always be there.
[5] Except for bisexual people I think sexuality is fixed (albeit more so in gay men than women).
[6] As such I don't believe that anybody can be seduced into a "gay lifestyle".
[7] That's a basic admission that the person who argues this is latently homosexual/bisexual himself.
[8] The blatant sexualization of society may lead to corruption.
[9] The gay minority isn't big enough to really influence it either way.
[10] The sexual revolution and the teen pregnancy epidemics are doing much worse for society.
[11] It's not that white people don't breed, it's that the other races breed uncontrollably at the white man's expense.
[12] You want to murder white gay people?
[13] Oh yeah, that's definitely going to increase our numbers.
[14] A lot of young gay people end up as hopeless liberals, because they hear pseudo-religious crap like yours.
[15] Gay people also have talents that can benefit society, and without them there wouldn't have been a renaissance after the dark ages.
[16] What people do in their bedrooms with other consenting adults is their own business.
[17] Maybe you should become a Salafi Muslim and fuck off to Saudi Arabia


---------------------"Friedrich responds to apster, below-copied---------------------


Yeah, whatever, you've already said I should be exterminated long ago.
What more is there to say?
Are you honestly saying that straight men are so simply because they have more restraint on their same sex desires?
I don't find that at all, and straight people like a lot of heterosexual sense-gratification.
Either you have same sex attraction or not, but my male straight friends have none.
But, rather predictably, now its going into New Ageism versus "Christian soldiers".
You enjoy your beliefs, and I'll enjoy mine.


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"Straights" Are More Rational Than Queers, Who Are Psychotic, By Definition, Other Things Being Equal

(Apollonian, 17 Jul 11)

"What more is there to say?"--I don't know: that's up to u, evidently, as u plainly came here to "push ur agenda," as I noted.

What I'm saying is that queers are (a) addicts and psychotically obsessed, (b) then necessarily, given the cultural/psychologic configurations, accomplices to the worst enemies of mankind, the Jews, who deliberately promote such corruption/perversion as queers.

And thus "straights" do not, by definition, indulge/partake in such corruption/perversion. Straights are thus no more virtuous than any other citizen who chooses NOT to indulge in any sort of criminality.

So "straights," like any non-criminal citizen, deserve credit for not oppressing society as queers do. "Straights" may indeed have similar urge to sheer "sense gratification," but they're more rational as to be more constrained for choice of partners--and deserve due credit for what it's worth.

CONCLUSION: Right queer: I'm sure u'll "enjoy" ur "beliefs"--and the large drama is presently taking place in the world's cultural struggle as we observe in "Decline of the West," by Oswald Spengler. I just wanted to be sure u're successful in ur campaign of "pushing" ur "agenda," as u do. Ur fellow queers surely appreciate ur arguments as u've presented, indubitably. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

-------END-------[There's more to this dialectic at the site, above-noted.]----------------